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Limitations on Host OPSYS

Source: microsoft.public.virtualpc
Sent: 01/14/2005
From: "Ralf Gerwig" <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

Hi forum,

I intend to install VPC 2004 on a Dell Inspiron notebook already running WIN
XP PRO as production OPSYS and 98 SE in a multiple boot scenario using PQ
Partition Magic/Boot Magic 8.0 as primary boot loader. Soon I even will
install SuSE Linux 9.2 on another logical harddisk partition on that
machine.

Question 1: After installing VPC on XP PRO, then even running/acting as the
host OPSYS, are there any known limitations or things not working properly
or at all by design of XP PRO, which in turn will/would affect production on
the XP PRO OPSYS? Performance is *NOT* an issue.

Question 2: How much space on the XP PRO NTFS system partition on the
internal harddisk VPC will roughly require to install? The installer package
itself will *NOT* be placed on this partition/internal harddisk.

Question 3: How much space on the XP PRO NTFS system partition on the
internal harddisk VPC will roughly occupy after installation?

Thank you in advance.

Ralf

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Related Messages

Re: Limitations on Host OPSYS

Sent: 01/14/2005
From: "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(nojunk)@msn.com>
Message:

If you are going to use VPC 2004 why are you also going to set up a
multiboot system? Why not use XP Pro as the host OS and run Win98 and Suse
as guests?

Perhaps you are missing the point that under VPC you can run all three
operating systems at the same time if you want to, without any reboots to
move from one OS to the other. VPC is a NOT a multiboot scheme and does not
require Partition Magic to work. You can do what you have in mind with a
minimum of 384mb ram but 512mb is what I recommend. More if you plan to run
both Win98 and Suse at the same time. You will need hard drive space for
the virtual hard drives of both Win98 and Suse. My own experience suggests
that you will need something on the order of 8GB for both to get started and
that your needs will grow with use, just as it would for separate boxes. I
have 16GB set aside for Win98 and 16GB for Suse and am actually using about
a third of that space for the virtual hard drive files.

VPC is an application and does not require much space on your hard disk nor
much memory to run. It will not affect other Windows apps running at the
same time and by itself does not require much in the way of resources.

When you run a guest OS you will need sufficient memory for both the host
and guest OS's plus whatever applications are running in each. I suggest
you begin at

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtualpc/default.mspx

and review the system requirements based on your planned usage.

--
Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
"Ralf Gerwig" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
news:(email address - cut out)...

Show quoted text

> Hi forum,
>
> I intend to install VPC 2004 on a Dell Inspiron notebook already running
> WIN XP PRO as production OPSYS and 98 SE in a multiple boot scenario using
> PQ Partition Magic/Boot Magic 8.0 as primary boot loader. Soon I even will
> install SuSE Linux 9.2 on another logical harddisk partition on that
> machine.
>
> Question 1: After installing VPC on XP PRO, then even running/acting as
> the host OPSYS, are there any known limitations or things not working
> properly or at all by design of XP PRO, which in turn will/would affect
> production on the XP PRO OPSYS? Performance is *NOT* an issue.
>
> Question 2: How much space on the XP PRO NTFS system partition on the
> internal harddisk VPC will roughly require to install? The installer
> package itself will *NOT* be placed on this partition/internal harddisk.
>
> Question 3: How much space on the XP PRO NTFS system partition on the
> internal harddisk VPC will roughly occupy after installation?
>
> Thank you in advance.
>
> Ralf
>

Re: Limitations on Host OPSYS

Sent: 01/14/2005
From: Steve Jain <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 15:41:23 +0100, "Ralf Gerwig"
<(email address - cut out)> wrote:

If you're planning on using VPC, why are you dual-booting and creating
multiple partitions?

VPC emulates its own set of hardware, except the CPU. VPC does not
support USB/Firewire and several other things. The hardware on your
host PC is irrelevant, as all VMs will have the same emulated video,
sound, etc. If you need specific access to a PCMCIA card, you will
not be able to do so in a VM.

Not sure, you can install off a cd-rom, so you would only need minimal
space for extracting components.

Approximately 40MB

Steve Jain, Virtual PC for Windows MVP
Website: http://www.essjae.com
"This posting is provided "AS IS" with
no warranties, and confers no rights.
You assume all risk for your use."

Show quoted text

>Hi forum,
>
>I intend to install VPC 2004 on a Dell Inspiron notebook already running WIN
>XP PRO as production OPSYS and 98 SE in a multiple boot scenario using PQ
>Partition Magic/Boot Magic 8.0 as primary boot loader. Soon I even will
>install SuSE Linux 9.2 on another logical harddisk partition on that
>machine.
>
>Question 1: After installing VPC on XP PRO, then even running/acting as the
>host OPSYS, are there any known limitations or things not working properly
>or at all by design of XP PRO, which in turn will/would affect production on
>the XP PRO OPSYS? Performance is *NOT* an issue.
>
>Question 2: How much space on the XP PRO NTFS system partition on the
>internal harddisk VPC will roughly require to install? The installer package
>itself will *NOT* be placed on this partition/internal harddisk.
>
>Question 3: How much space on the XP PRO NTFS system partition on the
>internal harddisk VPC will roughly occupy after installation?
>
>Thank you in advance.
>
>Ralf
>

Re: Limitations on Host OPSYS

Sent: 01/15/2005
From: "Ralf Gerwig" <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

Hi Colin,

thank you for your quick response.

Well, Colin, the multiboot system is already on the fly since years, even I
installed
XP PRO just a couple of months ago, and I even do not intend to cut down the
multiboot scenario in front of all. Perhaps it's the best way to let you
know ahead of all,
that I run this pretty old Dell Inspiron notebook for my very own special
personal
production, tweaking the machine with all sort of tests much the same
time...

But you are right, after installing VPC and under the condition of a well
performing machine
in all aspects some time later (think at migration scenarios of
multiboot-production environments
to VPC-only-production environments) there is no need to keep a multiboot
scenario ahead of
all and the first-level bootmanager scenario(s) may or even should get cut
back then.

Nope, sorry, no missing point, and neither Partition Magic nor any other
multiboot manager
is required to get into any and every VPC environment scenario, sure, I
know.

Starting about 25 years ago I did this amongst other stuff for a while, for
about one and
a half decades, as the pope in charge for my former installation ;-):

http://www.vm.ibm.com/

Though I'm really aware and know what I'm asking for on this board, no
worries ;-)

How do you reckon the minimum 384mb RAM for XP PRO and 98 SE?
As far as I know XP PRO requires 128mb and 98 SE 32mb as minimum, though
192mb for the XP PRO and 64mb for the 98 SE will certainly not show up 2
Ferraris
but even not 2 mule carriages I think.

Did you probably assume and include non-OPSYS pure application workload of
128mb RAM allabout on top of 256mb for OPSYS XP PRO and parallel 98 SE only
RAM consumption usage?

Today the performance of XP PRO using 256mb RAM on the Dell machine is
really
not bad, even I fitted Symantec Internet Security Pro, System Works Pro and
some
other bells and whistles of other manufacturers into, apart from MS Office
2000 Premium
Edition.

But I do not disklike your idea of an upgrade by another 256mb RAM, thinking
ahead of running XP PRO, 98 SE and SuSE Linux 9.2 in parallel at the same
time.

Nice figures and numbers, really.

Well, the internal IDE harddisk of the Dell machine has a capacity of
roughly 14gb.
Via USB/1394FW PCMCIA Cardbus attached there are 2 external harddisks, 1
with a capacity of 80gb and 1 with 250gb.

My strategy is to keep only the bare operating systems (XP PRO, 98 SE and
SuSE Linux) on the internal harddisk, regarding SuSE probably only those
parts
required for booting and running a minimum system, the OPSYS producer target
zones for
software updates, which I cannot control in any way, and all those
additional system
and communication software which is required in tough emergency situations
or worst case scenarios (missing external harddisks etc. for example) to get
the machine
including all operating systems up and to recover after whatever will be
odd.
The primary page-/swapfiles are also kept on the internal harddisk.

There is only one visible primary FAT32 partition driveletter "C" of 4gb set
to active
for first-level BIOS booting purposes, keeping the Bootmagic bootmanager,
which
is managed by XP PRO as well as 98 SE, keeping the 98 SE system without any
user data, and the XP PRO boot manager files (boot.ini, ntldr etc.), which I
only
keep there for emergency purposes. 200mb are still spare space for 98 SE
which
should be enough to cover forthcoming updates (especially for IE 6.0 but
even for
other software packages installed).

Thereafter is another visible primary but extended partition housing 3
logical partitions:

Up the harddisk at first there is a 100mb FAT32 partition driveletter "F"
staging mainly as the
primary boot partition for XP PRO (Bootmagic picks up the bootcode for XP
PRO out of
the Partition Table for this "F" partition and after some INT 13 tralala for
the BIOS
the XP PRO dual bootmanager shows up), I separated 98 SE and XP PRO fully
thinking at
98 SE clean setup recovery.

Then there is a 2.6gb space partition which I will soon use for SuSE Linux
purposes (EXT2/3,
primary SWAP).

Afterwards there is a 1.5gb NTFS partition driveletter "E" housing
"important" software products
I like to have on the internal harddisk, but they are not essential in
emergency cases and for
recovery purposes. There is still some 150mb spare space for
updates/upgrades and extensions
on this partition, which is a good candidate to be moved from the internal
to the external 80gb
harddisk once. BTW this 80gb external harddisk keeps another 12gb NTFS
partition housing
all other software products not required to be installed somewhere on the
internal harddisk.

Finally there is a 5.5gb NTFS partition driveletter "D" housing the XP PRO
OPSYS with
all updates available until today and even keeping all system and
communication products
which are essential in emergency situations and for recovery purposes. There
is still about
600mb spare space for some updates/upgrades and extensions. Once this spare
space will
be exhausted, I will cut down the XP PRO primary page-/swap file to a
minimum (right now
it's the one and only page-/swap file of the XP PRO system and it's system
managed), this
will free up another 0.5gb roughly.

You hit the point now, thank you very much. Now I know the structures VPC is
running on,
at least I anticipate them in detail.

Because Microsoft was acquiring it's virtual products for PC and MAC from
Connectix not
even 2 years ago I am very hopeful and pretty sure there are no special
"microcode" fittings
in the Intel P III and even P IV processors, not to mention Celeron,
supporting and assisting
a running VPC, which could vastly improve performance when dispatching
virtual machines.
Though I think the Dell Inspiron 7000 Intel P II 400 Mhz minimum machine ;-)
will still be
successful running the VPC scenario I keep in my mind, but I do not expect
riding a race horse,
sure.

That's absolutely true, people including experts are sometimes expecting
miracles and then
they wonder...

But let me tell you finally, once you have learned how to go and move in
environments of scarcity
and shortage, you soon will be able to anticipate any and every ongoing
bottleneck, trap and pitfall,
because you know all from underneath the basement up to the top of the roof,
and this even will
help to manage ressources in very effective and efficient ways.

Thank you for your time.

Regards

Ralf

"Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(nojunk)@msn.com> wrote in message
news:(email address - cut out)...

Show quoted text

> If you are going to use VPC 2004 why are you also going to set up a
> multiboot system? Why not use XP Pro as the host OS and run Win98 and
> Suse as guests?
> Perhaps you are missing the point that under VPC you can run all three
> operating systems at the same time if you want to, without any reboots to
> move from one OS to the other. VPC is a NOT a multiboot scheme and does
> not require Partition Magic to work.
> You can do what you have in mind with a minimum of 384mb ram but 512mb is
> what I recommend. More if you plan to run both Win98 and Suse at the same
> time.
> You will need hard drive space for the virtual hard drives of both Win98
> and Suse.
> My own experience suggests that you will need something on the order of
> 8GB
> for both to get started and that your needs will grow with use, just as it
> would for
> separate boxes. I have 16GB set aside for Win98 and 16GB for Suse and am
> actually using about a third of that space for the virtual hard drive
> files.
> VPC is an application and does not require much space on your hard disk
> nor much memory to run. It will not affect other Windows apps running at
> the same time and by itself does not require much in the way of resources.
> When you run a guest OS you will need sufficient memory for both the host
> and guest OS's plus whatever applications are running in each.
> If you are going to use VPC 2004 why are you also going to set up a
> multiboot system? Why not use XP Pro as the host OS and run Win98 and
> Suse as guests?
>
> Perhaps you are missing the point that under VPC you can run all three
> operating systems at the same time if you want to, without any reboots to
> move from one OS to the other. VPC is a NOT a multiboot scheme and does
> not require Partition Magic to work. You can do what you have in mind
> with a minimum of 384mb ram but 512mb is what I recommend. More if you
> plan to run both Win98 and Suse at the same time. You will need hard
> drive space for the virtual hard drives of both Win98 and Suse. My own
> experience suggests that you will need something on the order of 8GB for
> both to get started and that your needs will grow with use, just as it
> would for separate boxes. I have 16GB set aside for Win98 and 16GB for
> Suse and am actually using about a third of that space for the virtual
> hard drive files.
>
> VPC is an application and does not require much space on your hard disk
> nor much memory to run. It will not affect other Windows apps running at
> the same time and by itself does not require much in the way of resources.
>
> When you run a guest OS you will need sufficient memory for both the host
> and guest OS's plus whatever applications are running in each. I suggest
> you begin at
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtualpc/default.mspx
>
> and review the system requirements based on your planned usage.
>
> --
> Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
> "Ralf Gerwig" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
> news:(email address - cut out)...
>> Hi forum,
>>
>> I intend to install VPC 2004 on a Dell Inspiron notebook already running
>> WIN XP PRO as production OPSYS and 98 SE in a multiple boot scenario
>> using PQ Partition Magic/Boot Magic 8.0 as primary boot loader. Soon I
>> even will install SuSE Linux 9.2 on another logical harddisk partition on
>> that machine.
>>
>> Question 1: After installing VPC on XP PRO, then even running/acting as
>> the host OPSYS, are there any known limitations or things not working
>> properly or at all by design of XP PRO, which in turn will/would affect
>> production on the XP PRO OPSYS? Performance is *NOT* an issue.
>>
>> Question 2: How much space on the XP PRO NTFS system partition on the
>> internal harddisk VPC will roughly require to install? The installer
>> package itself will *NOT* be placed on this partition/internal harddisk.
>>
>> Question 3: How much space on the XP PRO NTFS system partition on the
>> internal harddisk VPC will roughly occupy after installation?
>>
>> Thank you in advance.
>>
>> Ralf
>>
>
>

Re: Limitations on Host OPSYS

Sent: 01/15/2005
From: "Ralf Gerwig" <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

"Steve Jain" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
news:(email address - cut out)...

Steve,

switching production systems from multiboot scenarios to VPC means migration
and *NOT* a start from scratch! This difference has to be considered
carefully.

If you drop VPC on a single-boot single-OPSYS fitted machine then you start
from scratch with the virtualization of this single system, and doing so you
will
not affect the production sides of this single OPSYS in any way by design,
because VPC is implemented as a very normal application amongst probably
many
other in the production OPSYS, now even catching the role of HOST OPSYS with
respect to VPC.
After installation of VPC you start to install other operating systems under
the control
of VPC additionally, but this is the normal way sometimes of many trials and
errors
to make things working and running. You will switch the state of operation
of every
new and additionally installed OPSYS from "installation" via "final test for
production"
to "production" after some more or less careful tests, which are depending
on the rules
and regulations of your probably teeny or probably vast shop.

Installing and using VPC on a multi-boot multi-OPSYS fitted machine is a
totally
different business, because each operating system installed is in the state
of
"production" (at least most of them), though they are in use, which means
every
and each incident with respect to the virtualization of this system will
show up
trouble for administrator(s) and enduser(s), will push down the overall
productivity
of enduser(s) and therefore finally will cost money. After installing VPC,
if you still
keep the multi-boot scenario on the system for a while, you always will be
able to
perform a fallback scenario if things are odd and running bad, e.g. you are
stopping
the use of VPC and continue to run the machine in the way of multi-booting
as you
did before installing VPC.

Installing VPC or rolling out probably in a big shop with probably a lot of
multi-boot
systems, do *NOT* expect all things are instantly working fine and dandy,
Sandy... ;-)

Well, creating multiple partitions even for each single OPSYS does not only
have
it's aspects and advantages with perspectives to multi-boot and/or VPC
scenarios,
there are many other reasons *NOT* to shovel all things on one single heap
aka
into one partition. Performance and flexibility with various different
perspectives
are just two terms on top of the pinboard.

You name some reasons, why migrating a multi-boot production machine to a
VPC
system is quite another business as starting the virtualization of a
single-boot
single-OPSYS production machine from scratch just by installing VPC.

Migrating a single OPSYS from its native running state without VPC to its
proper
virtual running state under VPC at least sometimes means a lot of work to do
ahead,
probably starting the job by preserving the state and config of the native
system even
for a quick recall in a fallback scenario, backup the whole system
partition, installing new
drivers and other system related stuff, some of them still in native mode
probably,
some of them under control of VPC, and so on...

Sure, you are right. I intended to point out I will *NOT* drop the
downloaded
VPC package from the Microsoft website onto the XP PRO NTFS system
partition,
even *NOT* on the whole internal harddisk, but I do not own a CD-ROM
containing
VPC at this stage, though I like to know roughly the size of space needed
the
installation process takes to install VPC, this space will be freed up again
after installation,
aka the amount of temporary space.

>

Thank you and kind regards.

Ralf

Show quoted text

> On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 15:41:23 +0100, "Ralf Gerwig"
> <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
>
>>Hi forum,
>>
>>I intend to install VPC 2004 on a Dell Inspiron notebook already running
>>WIN
>>XP PRO as production OPSYS and 98 SE in a multiple boot scenario using PQ
>>Partition Magic/Boot Magic 8.0 as primary boot loader. Soon I even will
>>install SuSE Linux 9.2 on another logical harddisk partition on that
>>machine.
> If you're planning on using VPC, why are you dual-booting and creating
> multiple partitions?
>
>>
>>Question 1: After installing VPC on XP PRO, then even running/acting as
>>the
>>host OPSYS, are there any known limitations or things not working properly
>>or at all by design of XP PRO, which in turn will/would affect production
>>on
>>the XP PRO OPSYS? Performance is *NOT* an issue.
> VPC emulates its own set of hardware, except the CPU. VPC does not
> support USB/Firewire and several other things. The hardware on your
> host PC is irrelevant, as all VMs will have the same emulated video,
> sound, etc. If you need specific access to a PCMCIA card, you will
> not be able to do so in a VM.
>
>>
>>Question 2: How much space on the XP PRO NTFS system partition on the
>>internal harddisk VPC will roughly require to install? The installer
>>package
>>itself will *NOT* be placed on this partition/internal harddisk.
> Not sure, you can install off a cd-rom, so you would only need minimal
> space for extracting components.
>>
>>Question 3: How much space on the XP PRO NTFS system partition on the
>>internal harddisk VPC will roughly occupy after installation?
> Approximately 40MB
>
>>
>>Thank you in advance.
>>
>>Ralf
>>
>
> Steve Jain, Virtual PC for Windows MVP
> Website: http://www.essjae.com
> "This posting is provided "AS IS" with
> no warranties, and confers no rights.
> You assume all risk for your use."

Post Reply | This is Spam! | Mark as Spam

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